Talk:Fire Emblem: The Blazing Blade

Requested move

It was requested that this article be renamed but there was no consensus for it to be moved.

The following is a closed discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was - clearly no move. Keith D (talk) 23:25, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

Because this is not the first game in the series, I suggested the move to its original full name. The existing page (and its English alternate) both currently redirect here. Whether people would expect to find the original game, the North American release (i.e. this game), or perhaps a series page is the aim of this discussion. As an example, refer to the use of the name Final Fantasy II in Japan and North America. — Nahum Reduta [talk|contribs] 08:34, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Oppose, every territory outside of Japan got this game as Fire Emblem. Since this is the most common (and ONLY official) Enlgish name, it should stay here. TJ Spyke 12:01, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Oppose: There have been various discussions about this. Basically, per Wikipedia: Naming Convention, the English title should be used as opposed to a foreign counterpart. Blazing Sword has no official merit; it's only a translation. Ashnard _Talk ^Contribs 17:31, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Oppose WP:VG/NAME recommends to "always use the original official title of the game, and prefer English titles over foreign ones". Fire Emblem is the official English title. --Mika1h (talk) 21:29, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Oppose; there is little evidence that "Blazing Sword" is in any way official. Until an official subtitle is released, the hatnotes at the top of the page are sufficient. Axem Titanium (talk) 22:58, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Fire Emblem Prototypes

Two Fire Emblem protos have been released. Should they be included the article?Missingno255 (talk) 01:24, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm not totally sure what they actually are. From the looks of it, is it just some fan made patches of the game? If so, I probably wouldn't say that's relevant to the article. Thanks. Ashnard _Talk ^Contribs 07:51, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

GA Bold Delist

As an article on the Wikipedia:WikiProject Good articles/Project quality task force/Sweeps list, I am boldly delisting this article. Here's why:

There are un-referenced material. Also, the Gameinformer reference is dead.

There is no Development section in the article.

Sections like the Hard Mode section are un-nessessary.

Since this is my first delisting, and you feel I wrongfully delisted the article, you can go to Wikipedia:GAR to comment. GamerPro64 (talk) 03:01, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

bad page-name

Fire Emblem links to a video game called Fire Emblem while saying on the top "for the gameboy game click Fire Emblem (video game)". Both are video games. It should be renamed to make a clear distinction or put together into one article. Kampy (talk) 13:16, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

Requested move 2013

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was no consensus. --BDD (talk) 21:42, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

Fire Emblem (video game) → Fire Emblem (2003 video game) – Original Japanese title of this game is Fire Emblem: Rekka no Ken. Alas, many opposed in 2008 discussion, so I'm not proposing the natural disambiguation (original title) to be the article name at this time. Instead, parenthetical disambiguation is preferred, but extra precision is needed. I've already discussed this in WT:VG, but I think I need an official consensus on this case. The very first game is Fire Emblem: Ankoku Ryū to Hikari no Tsurugi. However, the current title can't be redirected to that game, so I created Fire Emblem (1990 video game) as a redirect to that first game. "2003" is needed for clarity and accuracy since the original title is not proposed. If approved, then the current title should be redirected to Fire Emblem series. (Added 19 November 2013) If precision/concision is not the only issue, then let's discuss primary topic of the current title. WP:PDAB is now an essay, but it is also helpful for all sides of primacy of incompletely disambiguated page names. Neither 1990 game nor 2003 one is primary topic of "(video game)", so the current title must, as I said, redirect to the series. But if the primary topic is irrelevant, then disregard the primacy issue. --Relisted.  — Amakuru (talk) 14:50, 27 November 2013 (UTC) George Ho (talk) 19:03, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

I am not sure if this is necessary in this case since there is no other game in the series simply called Fire Emblem and since the first game was never released in the West I would see few if any people typing Fire Emblem (video game) that would be looking for Fire Emblem: Ankoku Ryū to Hikari no Tsurugi.--70.49.81.26 (talk) 22:02, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

To someone using 70.49.81.26 (talk · contribs · WHOIS), sources refer the 1990 video game as the 1990 video game (or Famicom game), like Polygon and Nintendo Power. One source refers it as Fire Emblem: Shadow Dragon and the Blade of Light. For the 2003 game, some sources may vary: [1][2]. But they call it the first to be released internationally. But this book is vague; was he referring to this game or all handheld GBA games of the series? Another source refer this game as the GBA game, not the NES/Famicom game. George Ho (talk) 23:06, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

• Reluctant oppose. 1) The 2003 video game was and still is the only video game released and marketed in English as just "Fire Emblem". 2) The 2003 video game is the most common referent when someone thinks of a video game called "Fire Emblem". 3) Parenthetical disambiguation should be as simple as possible. It is not ideal for (2003 video game) to exist if (video game) does not exist. Open to convincing otherwise. Axem Titanium (talk) 03:01, 19 November 2013 (UTC)

The title itself is obviously misleading. The 2003 GBA game was the first English game to be released, but it's not really the first game. And some kind of common misconception (referring to your point #2) is irrelevant to how the current title affects the reader's ability to understand either topic, 1990 Famicom or 2003 GBA. I added the hatnote, but I guess that doesn't change your side then. Here are stats of the 1990 Famicom game and the 2003 GBA game. I see that numbers of the "(video game)" are inconclusive. You still don't believe that "Fire Emblem (video game)" is misleading title, do you? George Ho (talk) 06:03, 19 November 2013 (UTC)

According to WP:article titles, the title must be commonly used, but it also must avoid inaccuracy and ambiguity. I'm not convinced that the title is accurate and unambiguous when you read the whole article about the 2003 game. Well, obviously, neither 1990 nor 2003 is primary enough to own the base name "Fire Emblem". Yet, since "Wikipedia:Partially disambiguated page names" (now an essay) failed to be the guideline, maybe primary topic of "(video game)" would be 2003. If there is no primary topic of "(video game)", then "2003" should be added. George Ho (talk) 06:29, 19 November 2013 (UTC)

• Oppose. I don't think that the first game is referred often enough as simply "Fire Emblem" to justify this move. --Mika1h (talk) 13:15, 19 November 2013 (UTC)

MyGamer calls Fire Emblem the seventh game and sequel to "six games" preceding it. There are similar sources calling it besides with a name. --George Ho (talk) 23:37, 19 November 2013 (UTC)

• Comment - Can someone please explain to me, the detrimental effect of slipping the year in there? I don't see anything to lose here... Sergecross73 msg me 03:10, 28 November 2013 (UTC)

• Sergecross73: Those opposers believe that adding the year is unnecessary. There weren't other video games released internationally as simply "Fire Emblem" because the prior games before the 2003 game weren't released in Japan. However, I believe that adding a year is harmless and helps readers realize that this game isn't the first of the Fire Emblem series. George Ho (talk) 03:17, 28 November 2013 (UTC)

• That's kind of how I was thinking too. The year certainly isn't going to mislead anyone, so if it helps a single person, it strikes me as a net positive... Sergecross73 msg me 03:27, 28 November 2013 (UTC)

• Are you going to vote then, Sergecross73? Why waiting for? George Ho (talk) 03:34, 28 November 2013 (UTC)

• I will likely !vote "support", but I wanted to see if there was any direct response to this once it was asked outright... Sergecross73 msg me 03:45, 28 November 2013 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Fire Emblem (video game)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Johanna (talk · contribs) 18:36, 28 November 2016 (UTC)

Will review in probably a few days' time. Johanna^{(talk to me!)} 18:36, 28 November 2016 (UTC)

• @Johanna: Just checking if you still plan to/are able to do it, or if you want to hand it over to another reviewer.--IDV^talk 09:31, 15 December 2016 (UTC)

Sorry about that. My December just turned out to be really busy. Looks like a solid article. Here are my comments, and then I would be happy to pass. Johanna^{(talk to me!)} 21:31, 17 December 2016 (UTC)

General

• I always ask this for GAN's that deal with foreign language sources, but do you feel confident enough in your Japanese to be able to accurately gain information from the sources? (I noticed that your Babel only has ja-1).

Lead

• When first stating the Japanese title, I would use Template:Nihongo rather than just the Hepburn romanization followed by a footnote, as this is easier to access.
• "Western audiences" is more specific than "the West"
• Use "was released" as your current construction is possibly incorrect.
• Second paragraph: specify that Elibe is the kingdom before you mention it at the end of the sentence
• "The gameplay..." Split this sentence into two, so that the second one starts with "characters are"

Gameplay

• Specify the image's fair use rationale and expand the in-article caption to include the distinctive aspects that the file displays.
• Link to non-player character at your first use of the term, as we don't know who will be reading this article.
• Beginning of same sentence: change to "the game divides", as this is a more active construction
• Use of the term rock-paper-scissors might be a bit confusing to those relatively unfamiliar with the ins and outs of gameplay, as it might indicate to some that weapon damage is based on chance. I would probably remove it.
• "dubbed the Magic Trinity" is this name from the game itself? If so, you should specify that.

Synopsis

• A more precise term for "grandfather's brother" is "great-uncle"
• Final sentence: should be "as he meets"

Development

• Be consistent about whether you refer to the game by its English or Japanese title, especially in this section. I would recommend the English one.
• For the first paragraph, try to vary your constructions so it reads less like a list of credits. I can help with that if you want--just ask.
• "the central character Eliwood was fairly weak and fitted the concept of an "easy" mode" I am not sure what this part of the sentence means and cannot check the source because it is in Japanese. Can you possibly rephrase this?
• I took the liberty of altering the last sentence of this section as well. Take a look and make sure you agree with my wording change.

Release

• Same comment about how you refer to the game
• What is RPGamer and why is it a reliable source?
• What does the translation of the Japanese title have to do with the rest of the paragraph? I would remove this sentence and put this information with the lead per my comment there.
• Put commas before and after Sakurai's name
• Why is "Nintendo Everything" reliable?

Reception

• This is a just a personal preference, but can you put a critical consensus at the top of the section per your segment in the lead?
• "noted the game's superiority" because this is an opinion, use a different construction like "believed that the game was superior"
• "short and lacking" what did this reviewer believe to be lacking?
• The first two sentences of the "Accolades" subsection belong near the top of the overall reception section, as they pertain to review aggregation rather than awards. After you remove them, be sure to add a new opening sentence to this subsection.

References

• Other than the few source issues I mentioned above, your sources look pretty good. The external links feature in the toolset on this page lists one dead link, but it is actually successfully archived.

@Johanna: I've addressed all the grammer issues you raised, and done my best with a few of the other points. The information there was actually available through an online compilation of development/interview information that I found online and translated with some help from Google Translate, or from sources where an independent English translation is available such as the Sakurai interview. I didn't include anything I wasn't sure about. RPGamer is accepted as a source by Wikipedia and I've had no trouble with it on other GAs (it's been around for over ten years), while the author of the Nintendo Everything post is accepted as a suitable source - any other author and it would be questionable. The note in the lead for the Japanese title was a style I adopted to avoid clutter - I've used it successfully for the GAs on Sacred Stones, Shadow Dragon, and New Mystery, so I didn't think I needed to make the change here. --ProtoDrake (talk) 22:47, 17 December 2016 (UTC)

@ProtoDrake: Thanks for your timely in-article fixes. The prose seems up to GA standard now. I just have one follow-up question about the Nintendo Everything source--who exactly is Brian Ashcraft? Is he a reviewer at other publications, affiliated with Nintendo, or is there something else that makes him reliable? Johanna^{(talk to me!)} 18:35, 18 December 2016 (UTC)

@Johanna: I can't actually remember the occation. As there's some question, I've replaced it with the relevant magazine citation. I hope this sorts the problem. --ProtoDrake (talk) 18:50, 18 December 2016 (UTC)

@ProtoDrake: Great. Pass. Johanna^{(talk to me!)} 01:28, 21 December 2016 (UTC)

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (reference section): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism):

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free content have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

Alternate titles in lead rather than footnote?

I think the Japanese title should be mentioned somewhere in the lead rather than simply in a footnote. More significantly, the English translation for it, Fire Emblem: The Blazing Blade, is used in character descriptions (and maybe elsewhere?) in the mobile game Fire Emblem Heroes – as can be seen from Lyn's description on the official FEH English website, which is cited by that footnote but not noted in the text as an official translation. Anyway, I think that this information belongs in the text rather than in a footnote, but it's a bit long to go in the first sentence. Perhaps in its own paragraph? Thoughts? V2Blast (talk) 21:46, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

Requested move 12 May 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved. Despite the subtitle perhaps not being present in the English releases, it exists in other languages. This move will help reduce ambiguity between all the FE video games. Other articles, such as List of Fire Emblem video games, already list this with its subtitle. Anarchyte (talk) 14:39, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

---

Fire Emblem (video game) → Fire Emblem: The Blazing Blade – Official subtitle of game per Fire Emblem Heroes, and it would reduce confusion with the 15 other main-series titles and two spinoffs. Dudhhr (talk) 01:40, 12 May 2021 (UTC)

• Support - A preferable (and less confusing) way to disambiguate. HumanBodyPiloter5 (talk) 02:04, 12 May 2021 (UTC)
• Support per WP:NATURALDAB. Link20XX (talk) 02:50, 12 May 2021 (UTC)
• Support per the above and per WP:CONSISTENT since it's what we normally do with works that have subtitles.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  08:07, 12 May 2021 (UTC)
• Support per WP:SUBTITLES. Crouch, Swale (talk) 08:46, 12 May 2021 (UTC)
• Support per WP:CONSISTENT and a generally less confusing title. SuperSkaterDude45 (talk) 02:39, 13 May 2021 (UTC)
• Oppose. For those not familiar with the work, there is no official subtitle in English. You will never find "The Blazing Blade" anywhere on an English cartridge. The term used in Heroes is worthy of being brought up in the lede, but it can't rewrite history. The game also was ported to NDS for a select group of customers, where it had the name "Fire Emblem", no subtitle, so later releases still didn't include the subtitle. Maybe it's a bit confusing with the current title, but it's also accurate. The current title is already consistent with the other entries as far as including subtitles, just, as stated before, this game doesn't actually have a subtitle. If and when this game is re-released officially with a subtitle, we can reassess the matter, but that isn't true currently. SnowFire (talk) 15:16, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

  The game was never ported to the DS, it was ported to the Wii U. [3] though it is still just called Fire Emblem there. Dudhhr (talk) 02:20, 15 May 2021 (UTC)

  Ah, right. I was thinking of the ambassador program which was the 3DS anyway, but that was Sacred Stones. Point stands though for the reason you mentioned, the game has no subtitle in official English releases & ports. SnowFire (talk) 15:44, 15 May 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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