Talk:Night of the Long Knives

"Night of the Long Knives"

Was that the name of the coup plot or was it the name of the counter-coup by those loyal to Hitler? --105.8.7.22 (talk) 13:55, 8 February 2022 (UTC)

There was no coup plot. The term refers to the event of Hitler purging several opponents both inside the Nazi Party and outside. Str1977 ^(talk) 04:50, 13 September 2022 (UTC)

That’s an understatement. At least 85 people were known to have been murdered, with estimates up to 700 and 1000. The SA lost it’s leadership and power and the military willingly subjugated itself to help the actions be carried out. Kierzek (talk) 04:58, 13 September 2022 (UTC)

Talk about missing the point. Str1977 ^(talk) 15:31, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

I agree you did apparently miss my point. Kierzek (talk) 15:46, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

Did not Von Schleicher and Rohm have a relationship...indeed, while they may not have got very far in their planning, some sources indicate that they did have a plan to move Hitler aside and concentrate power in their own hands with Rohm as Minister of Defence. 67.187.253.52 (talk) 18:20, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

You need WP:RS for a claim like this one. LaughingManiac (talk) 13:12, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

There was a coup plot and 'night of the long knives' indeed refers to it... One can learn that from the Hitler Speech as well: https://archive.org/details/19340713AdolfHitlerReichstagsredeUeberDieEntstehungUndDenVerlaufDerSARevolte68m22s

So it isn't a reference to the purge as such (which it was, done by extra-legal executions). 105.0.1.62 (talk) 14:44, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

Again: You need WP:RS for a claim like this one.

"The Hitler speech" is not a reliable source to factually claim that a specific event occurred or not, or was intended to occur or not, it's only a reliable source to describe what Hitler said on the topic, and even then requires not giving it undue weight. See WP:PRIMARY and WP:DUE. NewBorders (talk) 18:06, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

"Use mdy dates"

For what reason? AFAICS all other articles on Nazi topics use dmy. Harfarhs (talk) 16:21, 29 September 2022 (UTC)

I agree. The subject is European, and the article uses British English - it should use dmy dates. Beyond My Ken (talk) 22:22, 29 September 2022 (UTC)

Agree. Kierzek (talk) 22:28, 29 September 2022 (UTC)

I've been BOLD and gone ahead and changed dates to dmy -- that is, if I used the script I just installed correctly. Beyond My Ken (talk) 03:35, 1 October 2022 (UTC)

"Röhm purge (German: Röhm-Putsch)"

The article currently reads "Röhm purge (German: Röhm-Putsch)". I think that's misleading, "Röhm-Putsch" translates to "Röhm coup" (i.e. Hitler claiming that Röhm planned a coup, which Röhm did not). "Purge" would be "Säuberung", but I think the closest term used by German historians is "Röhm-Morde" (Röhm murders). Note that Röhm-Putsch is the term preferred by German historians, even though it was Hitler's propaganda term and not an accurate reflection of reality. Xjcl (talk) 11:39, 13 October 2022 (UTC)

It's not a literal translation, it's the WP:COMMON term used in English. Beyond My Ken (talk) 00:44, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

• Agree with this. The common English phrase is "Night of the Long Knives". In German it was sometimes called the Röhm Putsch to suggest that Röhm was planning a coup. The alternate title in English should either be "Röhm Coup", or just have two German phrases for Night of the Long Knives (Nacht der Langen Messer and Röhm Putsch. This is the WP:COMMON-approved answer. --Quark1005 (talk) 21:30, 1 October 2023 (UTC)

Hitler's move would be to strengthen his position with the army by moving against its nemesis, the SA

User:Beyond My Ken What does that sentence even mean? You insist on its retention, so explain its meaning. The sentence is unclear and the narrative flows better without it. Mztourist (talk) 03:00, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

No matter, I've re-written it and moved it in the section. Beyond My Ken (talk) 03:12, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

"Nacht van de Lange Messen" listed at Redirects for discussion

The redirect Nacht van de Lange Messen has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 September 26 § Nacht van de Lange Messen until a consensus is reached. ArcticSeeress (talk) 22:39, 26 September 2023 (UTC)

Edmund Heines

The article says Heines was found in bed with "an unidentified eighteen-year-old male". Victims of the Night of the Long Knives identifies the male as Erich Schiewek, who actually has a biography in the German Wikipedia[1] - according to which he was aged 20 rather than 18. Muzilon (talk) 12:56, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

That may be so, but the RS cited source used herein for the current information written, apparently does not state that. Kierzek (talk) 20:00, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

The source cited here is Shirer (1960). Edmund Heines cites Kempka (1948), an even older work. However, Victims of the Night of the Long Knives cites Kershaw (1999), which is likely a more up-to-date source. Muzilon (talk) 01:39, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

I know its cited to Shirer’s work; which, I have never had. Kempka, I have (not a great RS source, a mixed bag) and Kershaw, I have and he still is a top RS source and I know his work very well, but I am out of town. So, I cannot check as to specifics. Kierzek (talk) 03:52, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

Kershaw (1999) is available on the Internet Archive. Actually, I've just checked it and don't see any mention of Erick Schiewek by name in the text. I've added a {{failed verification}} tag to the reference in Victims of the Night of the Long Knives. Muzilon (talk) 08:28, 7 May 2024 (UTC)