Talk:Old Trafford Cricket Ground

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Untitled

This is just a quick note that I'm planning to do an intensive rewrite of this piece over the next few days - please come back and comment when I upload it! Southdunedain (talk) 15:22, 27 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Done! Thoughts, please! Southdunedain (talk) 21:31, 27 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

In light of recent developments I'm going to give this article another look over during the next few days/weeks. If you have any comments for improvement, please do post. Southdunedain (talk) 22:49, 5 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

please put some pictures of the stadiums on there

Does anyone have accurate capacity figures? Cricinfo says 19,000 but since 22,000 attended in 1999 for a Pakistan match one assumes that the lower number is temporary while renovation is going on. Loganberry 15:12, 14 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know. I've emailed Lancashire CCC - let's hope they reply. Kind regards, jguk 16:19, 14 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I have a reply, which reads:

"22,000 for the Test Match, 14,000 for all other games. No development plans announced at present, but some will be announced in next 6 months"

I have added the info into the article, jguk 17:01, 15 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Proposed move

I can't help feeling that both "Old Trafford (football)" and "Old Trafford (cricket)" are most unsatisfactory names for these articles. Thus, I propose moving this page to "Old Trafford cricket ground", whilst moving the other page to "Old Trafford stadium". If there are no immediate objections then I will add the relevant tags etc. DJR (T) 21:11, 12 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Object - these are established, descriptive names and I see no reason to rename them. In particular, the cricket stadium is as much a stadium as is the football ground. There is no such address as Old Trafford Cricket Ground. TerriersFan 02:12, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I'm afraid I must disagree. The Lancashire County Cricket Club homepage uses "Old Trafford Cricket Ground" as illustrated in the link. In contrast, there definitely is no such address as "Old Trafford (cricket)"! If anything, "Old Trafford Cricket Ground" is more descriptive than "Old Trafford (cricket)". Furthermore, cricket grounds are addressed as "Blah Cricket Ground" - being a member of the MCC I know for a fact that the address of Lord's is "Lord's Cricket Ground" and The Oval is "The Oval Cricket Ground". The football ground could be renamed to "Old Trafford Football Ground" if the use of "stadium" is an issue, but it should be borne in mind that the Stadium is not only used for football, whereas the Cricket Ground is a cricket ground. DJR (T) 18:05, 18 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The address is here. I see no pressing reason for the change. BTW We have pop concerts and corporate events as well as cricket matches :-) TerriersFan 23:47, 18 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

User:Djr xi is quite right about the name. It is used in the club's own directions page. If you do a Google on "Old Trafford Cricket Ground", it produces several finds. Bear in mind that the upper case is key to this as a full name. I'll await the result of this discussion with interest. All the best. --BlackJack | ^{talk page} 14:37, 15 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Compromise suggestion: Old Trafford (cricket ground) and Old Trafford (football ground). This clarifies the purpose of the article without implying that Old Trafford Cricket Ground is the official name. TerriersFan 16:32, 15 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I'd be happy with that. It's only the display title after all and the redirects will find it. --BlackJack | ^{talk page} 17:17, 19 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It's definitely an improvement on the present anyway. DJR (T) 17:34, 19 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I see no one has completed the move as per the suggestion above so I'm doing it. An interesting find is this one on the CricketArchive site where the name of the stadium is Old Trafford but its address is Old Trafford Cricket Ground. --BlackJack | ^{talk page} 09:14, 18 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I have completed the move by fixing the double redirects. Wikipedia:Double redirects refers. TerriersFan 19:46, 18 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I propose that when they completely redevelop Old Trafford, it should be renamed New Trafford to show the way forward for a new era of cricket. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.68.49.235 (talk) 20:07, 1 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

A joke I presume. Anyway, the page name remains until changed by the club. TerriersFan (talk) 20:13, 1 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Move page again

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was As I don't see a consensus here, I'm removing this from WP:RM. Please feel free to continue the discussion, however, and don't hesitate to list it again if you deem it necessary. Kyle Barbour 19:11, 16 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

~~LCCC have finally decided to publish an address that should solve the naming dispute once and for all [1]:~~

LANCASHIRE COUNTY CRICKET CLUB,

COUNTY GROUND, OLD TRAFFORD

MANCHESTER M160PX

Thus, I propose moving the page to its proper name: County Ground, Old Trafford. Obviously we will have redirects from obvious alternatives. I'll leave this a week to run and if there's no opposition I'll go ahead and do it myself. DJR (T) 11:43, 5 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The Club have corrected the contacts page so we can finally end this name silliness. The reference here is now in line with the ECB site and also that on their letterhead (which I shall upload soon).

LANCASHIRE COUNTY CRICKET CLUB

OLD TRAFFORD CRICKET GROUND,
TALBOT ROAD,

MANCHESTER M16 0PX

TerriersFan 18:31, 14 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

- Cool well in that case the page can be moved to Old Trafford Cricket Ground without fuss. DJR (T) 13:28, 15 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Support

as nom. DJR (T) 11:43, 5 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
per nom. -- Exitmoose 06:51, 7 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose

No-one calls it the County Ground and this is the only useage. The article should use the most commonly used name see WP:NC. Other than Old Trafford, Old Trafford Cricket Ground is used. See the Official ECB page here, Crickinfo here, and other Club useage here. TerriersFan 16:33, 11 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. Burden of proof is on those proposing move, and has not been met. Gene Nygaard 21:39, 12 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Comments

If the article were to obey WP:NC then it should be at Old Trafford. "Old Trafford (cricket ground)" is not its name, and WP:DAB illustrates that when disambiguation is necessary between two areas, an official name can be used instead of parenthesis. The County Ground is the proper name for Old Trafford, and it makes sense for the article to take this name and avoid ugly brackets. Furthermore, all links to the ground are pipped as Old Trafford anyway, so it does not lead to any confusion. The first line of the article made clear that "Old Trafford" is its common usage, but this is Wikipedia and should be presenting the real names of places, not just those that have become commonplace through general usage. The page should be moved back. Also, WP:RM operates 5-day waiting periods so the move was not entirely premature. DJR (T) 17:16, 11 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

A better explanation is at WP:NC(CN). That particular page has chosen to use 'County Ground' for reasons that escape me; it is not the official name (if it were the ECB page would use it) and more recent mailing address pages don't use it; see here. The structure of both the cricket and football articles indicate Old Trafford as the proper name with the brackets disambiguating as commonly used on WP. TerriersFan 17:33, 11 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Brackets are used when there is no feasible alternative - if there is then it is used. For example, rather than saying "Bromley (London borough)", the page is entitled "London Borough of Bromley". Furthermore, just because the ECB use the ground's common name does not mean it should be used. Take the example of the football ground commonly known as "Highbury". All sources - The FA, UEFA etc. etc. called it "Highbury", but that was simply a common name - the ground's real name was Arsenal Stadium. Given that Wikipedia should be striving for ultimate accuracy rather than institutionalising common perceptions, this page should follow the example of Arsenal Stadium. The address of LCCC is "County Ground, Old Trafford", because the ground is called the County Ground. It really is that simple. DJR (T) 00:42, 12 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Other than the person who put up that mailing address no-one else uses 'County Ground'. As you are, I am sure, I am combing the net to find an official source but everything points to Old Trafford Cricket ground. If you want to rename to that, and the other place to Old Trafford Football Ground, I have no objection; indeed I think that's the best way forward. TerriersFan 05:15, 12 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Similarly, no-one else uses/used Arsenal Stadium, but that does/did not stop it being its proper name. I'd agree that at the very least it should be moved to Old Trafford Cricket Ground, but given that the most direct source on that matter states its name as the County Ground, I fundamentally feel that it should be moved back there. DJR (T) 12:42, 12 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
In addition, English Heritage refer to the County Ground [2] (pdf format), while the address stating "The County Ground, Old Trafford" is repeated countless times from Cricket Clubs Manchester to the Institute of Sales and Marketing Management to the ECB's Q&A on County Cricket. My point is quite simply that there is no reason for the address of the ground to be "The County Ground, Old Trafford" if the name of the ground was anything other than that. Rather than enforcing an informal name, Wikipedia should be seeking to provide the most accurate information. DJR (T) 00:32, 13 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Moved - DJR (T) 14:15, 11 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Moved back to agreed and compromise heading at last discussion. Also, 6 days is not a week - premature move! TerriersFan 16:33, 11 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Huh? WP:RM is open for 5 days. Don't know why you are thinking it is a week. Vegaswikian 07:39, 13 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Boundary with Cheshire

This might seem a bizarre question but, using the traditional pre-1974 county boundaries, was Old Trafford actually in Lancashire? Looking at a map, it must've been very close to the border with Cheshire. It is south of the river, and rivers were often county boundaries, but then Stretford is south of the river and I'm fairly sure that was in Lancashire. Epa101 (talk) 00:31, 10 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

You're looking at the wrong river. :-) Mr Stephen (talk) 10:31, 10 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

After a bit of searching, I found an old map. It was in the Stretford borough, which was on the southern edge of Lancashire. I was wondering because I knew that Old Trafford was in the Trafford council area, and I thought that Trafford was all Cheshire. I was mistaken. Epa101 (talk) 11:44, 10 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Early History - which train station?

Does "...Old Trafford's first years were rocky: accessible only along a footpath from the Old Trafford station, the ground was situated out in the country..." refer to present day Old Trafford railway station (then called Manchester Art Treasures Exhibition and subsequently Warwick Road railway station) or present day Trafford Bar railway station (then called Old Trafford railway station)? Should really be clarified and then linked to the relevant station's article but I don't know which it is! --81.23.54.142 (talk) 06:10, 26 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Think I've found the answer to my own question, Old Trafford Metrolink station explains that the station was called Old Trafford Cricket Ground in 1862. I will fix the article using a piped link. --81.23.54.142 (talk) 06:29, 26 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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Requested move 8 July 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

It was proposed in this section that Old Trafford Cricket Ground be renamed and moved to Old Trafford (cricket ground).

result:
Not moved per consensus seen below. Thanks and kudos to editors for your input; everyone stay healthy! P.I. Ellsworth , ed. ^{put'er there} 07:24, 25 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Move logs: source title · target title

This is template {{subst:Requested move/end}}

Old Trafford Cricket Ground → Old Trafford (cricket ground) – The cricket ground is actually called just "Old Trafford". But to disambiguate with the football stadium, cricket ground should be in brackets, as it's not part of the name. Even the article lead acknowledges this. 90.255.6.219 (talk) 19:32, 8 July 2023 (UTC) — Relisting. CLYDE ^{TALK TO ME}/_{STUFF DONE} (I will not see your reply if you don't mention me) 02:50, 17 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Should Old Trafford be a disambiguation page? Walt Yoder (talk) 01:38, 11 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Walt Yoder I think it's pretty universally regarded as the WP:PRITOP. 90.255.6.219 (talk) 08:08, 11 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The football ground is a clear WP:PRIMARYTOPIC for "Old Trafford". Joseph2302 (talk) 08:10, 11 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Joseph2302 Do you agree with the nom? 90.255.6.219 (talk) 16:20, 11 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose it's a cricket ground, and Cricket Ground is part of the name. Almost all cricket ground use Cricket Ground as part of their name on Wikipedia. Joseph2302 (talk) 08:38, 15 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose as comments above Stevo1000 (talk) 22:08, 18 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Lord's, Trent Bridge and Rose Bowl (cricket ground) are some examples of grounds without 'Cricket Ground' in the title. I think IP has a point here. I'm still not inclined to support due to examples such as Headingley Cricket Ground and Edgbaston Cricket Ground. Willbb234 10:14, 19 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.